Talk:Wood Release: Flowering Tree
Wood Release? Is this really a Wood Release jutsu? To me it looks more a detached arm of the Ten-Tails (with its spikes and the rafflesia-like mouths).--JOA20 (talk) 15:52, August 18, 2013 (UTC) :I know what you're talking about, but the Ten-Tails produced a similar flower when it fired its Tailed Beast Ball in its latest state before being sealed. Normally producing flowers is the work of Wood Release. I find it odd that the tree is being called Wood Release, since that would mean the Ten-Tails can use Wood Release then. Omega64 (talk) 17:59, August 18, 2013 (UTC) I definitely find it strange. Other than the obvious design similarity with the Ten-Tails, what Obito did does look more like a jutsu than it does a jinchuriki transformation. Obito didn't transform into the tree, he made it grow. It's almost like a weird kekkei genkai/tailed beast skill hybrid jutsu. Omnibender - Talk - 19:32, August 18, 2013 (UTC) : Its definitely Wood Release. Obito called it a tree. The Ten-Tails' flower was just likely an inspiration, but when he called it a tree, I had no doubt it was Wood Release-related. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 19:53, August 18, 2013 (UTC) :: I have my doubts, remember the Ten-Tails had the ability to split his body. Obito perfectly could send a portion of him into the ground when he touched it and then make it growth in that monstrous "tree". To that we have to add Obito's ability to use Yin-Yang release, which allows him "create things". So, we can't be sure the Tree was created with Wood Release as Obito has another means. I think we should remove the Wood Release until get some kind of confirmation, and simply classify this as a Tailed Beast Skill. Adept-eX (talk) 21:34, August 18, 2013 (UTC) ::: A tree is a tree, is a tree, is a tree. Trees are made out of Wood Release. Madara could make trees with flowers. Therefore, it is extremely more likely that it is Wood Release, based on the Ten-Tails' power, rather than something else. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 21:37, August 18, 2013 (UTC) :::Well you could technically make something that looks like a fully grown tree from a transformation jutsu as well, or creation of all things... but it grew from the ground so it is almost certainly wood release. — SimAnt 21:56, August 18, 2013 (UTC) However...the fact that the flowers generated by the tree, are exactly the same as the one used by the beast...means there's a direct relationship between the Ten-Tails and the Wood Release...add that to that debacle of the beast using the Wood Release: Cutting Technique...it's becoming more than clear, that the beast itself can use Wood Release. Aside from that, this is Wood Release, as we see a giant root with flowers....the fact that those are the same as the Ten-Tails and could create Tailed Beast Balls, mean it can use WR. Also @Simant, your theory is a bit farfetched. Darksusanoo (talk) 22:05, August 18, 2013 (UTC) ::Yeah, but for the same reason, there's no way to confirm it as Obito never mentioned "Wood Release" or something, classify the technique as such is speculation. It's for that reason why shouldn't label it as Wood release! It's like the case with Kushina's chakra chains and the Gedo's ones, or the Torii Seal and the Harishama's Myōjinmon. Despite the similar appearance and the evident connection, we can't assume anything without further evidence. Adept-eX (talk) 22:11, August 18, 2013 (UTC) :::Except the difference here, is that the Ten-Tails power is being directly used...it's a tree that can fire TBB...Darksusanoo (talk) 22:13, August 18, 2013 (UTC) ::::So, Wood Release tailed beast skill? Omnibender - Talk - 22:22, August 18, 2013 (UTC) :::::More than likely...we had this problem, when we saw Obito commanding the TT to use the Cutting Technique, people then came up with this insane concept that Obito used the thing as a medium, in order to keep from listing the beast as WR...now we have this chapter, which again shows a WR/Tailed Beast connection. You decide. Darksusanoo (talk) 22:29, August 18, 2013 (UTC) :It's not wood release, it's obviously tailed beast skill. --Salamancc (talk) 23:41, August 18, 2013 (UTC) ::So the giant tree and flowers, mean nothing? Darksusanoo (talk) 23:51, August 18, 2013 (UTC) :::The 'tree' looks similar to the clones that came from the Ten-Tails and, to be honest, the picture of it on page 7 makes it look like another clone. As for the flowers, we've already seen the Ten-Tails spit up a flower and charge the TBB so unless we call out Ten-Tails for that then I don't think we can really call this Wood Release. Joshbl56 00:33, August 19, 2013 (UTC) ::: That tree is the part of Ten-Tails' body, not a Mokuton tree.--Salamancc (talk) 01:02, August 19, 2013 (UTC) ::::Mokuton is creating plant life from the earth, or the user's body...if it can convert it's body into trees, i'd say that is what marks a Mokuton user. Darksusanoo (talk) 01:26, August 19, 2013 (UTC) ::: Only that's not its body. Obito calls it a tree. Its a tree. It grew from the ground. End of story. You can all speculate until you're blue in the face, but Obito called it a tree. Unless you really intend to suggest trees can now be made out of animal body parts, the only thing we need to accept is that its a tree, and has flowers that looks like the Ten-Tails'. We know nothing beyond that fact. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 03:48, August 19, 2013 (UTC) :::: It's not a tree, it's a body part of Jubi which shaped like a tree. Thus, he said "tree".--Salamancc (talk) 11:00, August 19, 2013 (UTC) the ten tails has seemed like a mokuton user to me since close to its appearance. --J spencer93 (talk) 07:43, August 19, 2013 (UTC) Unless it's called "wood release" in the chapter itself, I suggest we remove the label since it's nothing but speculation. It's not connected to Obito's body, there's no reason why it could fire tailed beasts balls if it were wood release, it's likely a part of ten-tails--Elveonora (talk) 12:14, August 19, 2013 (UTC) : I keep hearing a whole bunch of "likely", but the only thing we know for sure is that it is a tree, as called by Obito, and that it grew out of the ground, and was not part of Obito's body. Unless jinchūriki can now summon a remote part of their beast's body, which looks nothing like an actual part of its body (the Ten-Tails can only produce a giant flower from its mouth.), and actually looks like a root coming up out of the ground when it first appears, then its not a part of the Ten-Tails. It just looks like part. And really Elve? We've seen the Tailed Beast Ball used in conjunction with other techniques before. Susanoo, Naruto's several Miniature Tailed Beast Ball variations which do not require Kurama's body to be summoned. Obito can use Wood Release. He used it to create a flowering tree which he then channeled the Beast Ball through. Plain and simple. Obito called it a tree; not a tail, not a part of his body, not even a part of the Ten-Tails' body. A tree. Tress have only been produced by Wood Release, so we have a precedent, other than the fact that it looks like a bloody tree. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 17:46, August 19, 2013 (UTC) :: Edit: I mean, looking at the image we have of it, and comparing it to other manga images of Wood Release techs, its even shaded like a stem of wood. It looks exactly the same as the roots summoned by Hashirama's Wood Release: Nativity of a World of Trees, with the addition of spikes, that vaguely resemble the Ten-Tails, at the bottom of the stem. And we all know flowers can be grown from trees with Wood Release. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 17:50, August 19, 2013 (UTC) Well, for what's perhaps (Titans help me) the first time i agree with @TTF...this...is...Wood Release. But this is not the first time, we've seen WR associated with the Ten-Tails...and now, we have Obito calling out a giant tree that has identical flowers that can fire TTB's...also @TTF, let me remind you of Hashirama's and Gyuki's previous statements a few chapters ago, in which he said, that being sealed into a human vessel, the beast's powers can be better channeled and used than when unleashed, so the fact that it could bring one flower cannon and now Obito brings out four of the same, with the same function, may relate to that. My point is...this is WR, however it's a form of WR unique to the Ten-Tails (and by extension to his jinchuriki). Darksusanoo (talk) 21:42, August 19, 2013 (UTC) :I don't think you are gonna persuade people. There's no hard evidence besides the channeling stuff being too fishy and Jubi being plantish--Elveonora (talk) 21:52, August 19, 2013 (UTC) ::The whole channeling idea never made sense...hell it makes the entire field of collaboration techniques, null and void...if the thing is plantish already...was reffered as the creator of the world, has natural energy based chakra, and we've seen a WR technique being used by it (which due to it's nature as a KKG means, he has to have it in his body in order to use it)...and now we have a tree that can fire TTB in the exact same way as it could. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:59, August 19, 2013 (UTC) ::: @Elve: I don't have to convince anybody anything. Trees have only been made out of Wood Release → Fact. Obito called this technique a tree → Fact. Wood Release techniques have been shown making trees with flowers → Fact. Tailed Beast Ball has been shown being used with methods other than manifesting part of the beast's body (e.g., Naruto's Mini-Bijuudama, Madara's channeled through Susanoo) → Fact. Why do I need to convince anyone its not part of the Ten-Tails, when nothing other than the appearance of the flowers would suggest as much? Obito's body didn't transform. It grew out of the ground. It is shaded and drawn like a tree root. Ergo, its Wood Release. You're the one that needs substantial evidence. Not just a "feeling". ~ Ten Tailed Fox 00:33, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :::: While i agree with most of the stuff you said, you need to use better examples...first Naruto's Mini-TTB is a derived technique and Madara's Susanoo didn't channel a single thing...Kurama charged the Ball and the Susanoo stabbed its blade across it...there's no channeling here...nor has the series ever reffer to such a concept. Again i remark...this is the second time, we've seen a WR technique being used in conjunction with the Ten-Tails...Darksusanoo (talk) 00:57, August 20, 2013 (UTC) (resetting indents) Here we go. A little example to show what I mean. Obito_tree_stem.png|Obito summoning the tree. Obito's new tree.png|The tree itself Obito's bijuudama.png|Channeling Bijuudama Madara jukai koten.png|For comparison, look how Madara's trees are drawn. Its a tree root. Not a piece of the Ten-Tails. It is shaded like bark, it twists like bark and does everything a Wood Release technique is capable of doing. Also, @Dark: I don't know what you're getting at. The only time the Ten-Tails is seen in relation to Wood Release is when Obito is using Wood Release. Wood Release: Cutting Technique is Obito's technique. This is Obito's technique. The Ten-Tails has nothing to do with it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 01:03, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :What i'm getting at, is that, first, The Cutting Technique isn't an exclusive tech, and the scale which the Ten-Tails used it, is simply too great for it to have to have been used by Obito in any believable fashion when he and Madara were already having trouble in just controling the thing and Obito never demonstrated any WR technique of such scale. Ever. Much less has a WR technique ever been used, through the body another living thing. Two examples...one of the TT firing giant spikes from it's hands, now a giant tree with the same flower cannons as what it could use...My point is that this form of WR maybe a form unique to the Ten-Tails. Darksusanoo (talk) 01:13, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :: No its not, and that's not the topic here. Bring that up on Ten-Tails' talk page and I'd be happy to tell you why that's wrong. For now though, can we finally say this is Wood Release? ~ Ten Tailed Fox 01:18, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :::Again i agreed with you on that bit...also i already brought that up on the TT page, soo please do give your insight. Darksusanoo (talk) 01:20, August 20, 2013 (UTC) ::Obito's "tree" has spikes same as Jubi's spikes, has flowers same as Jubi's giant flower and he uses Bijudama by this. It's obviously the part of Jubi. The design of this "tree" is same as Jubi's body but it doesnt look like Madara's and Hashirama's trees and Obito's Cutting Technique. --Salamancc (talk) 14:55, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :::It's kinda confusing that this technique looks like a Wood release-based technique but still it's able to charge Bijūdama, does that mean the Jūbi has already wood release chakra that contains life source or it acquired this ability from Obito's original wood-based chakra? http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/anaspet06/Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png(Contact) 16:07, August 20, 2013 (UTC) ::::Inconclusive at the time...while this isn't the first example of WR used from the Ten-Tails, since it also envolved Obito, some believe Obito channeled his ability...more like an excuse to prevent from listing it as a WR user. Darksusanoo (talk) 19:26, August 20, 2013 (UTC) Enough with the speculation, Dark. This technique has nothing to do with the Ten-Tails, the Ten-Tails, being a beast, cannot use the kekkei genkai of Hashirama Senju; period. So stop with the bickering. The point of this discussion is to decide if this technique is Wood Release or not. Two or three seem to agree, and two or three seem to disagree. Keep the discussion on focus and stop throwing around speculative theories to throw off the discussion. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20:51, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :Hum..first off, i'm not throwing off anything...second, if being a tailed beast means being unable to use a KKG, then how can Son Goku use Lava Release, a KKG? Third, i've already agreed that this is WR. Fourth, were was it stated that the WR was exculsive to Hashirama...what's known is that he was the only known user of his time, nothing more. Fifth, i've already told you to stop with that atittude that only what you say goes...i'm point out that there is a possibility here that could explain this legitimate doubt. Darksusanoo (talk) 21:20, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :: Yes you are derailing a conversation. If you agree that this is Wood Release; great. That's the point of this debate. You want to have a debate about the Ten-Tails' usage (or lack thereof) of Wood Release, debate it on its talk page (which means wait for more responses) or on a forum page, where the whole community can weigh in; not here. That's not an "everything I say goes" attitude, that's talk page etiquette and I suggest you adhere to it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 21:40, August 20, 2013 (UTC) :::Ok, as the thing goes I think we need to remove the Wood Release from the the name and keep it simply as Flowering Tree as the name hasn't been stated as that. We can keep the Wood Release classification in the infobox and add the Tailed Beast Skill to it, and also keep the Wood Release: Advent of a World of Flowering Trees as example due the similarities of both techniques. Are you agree? Adept-eX (talk) 23:04, August 20, 2013 (UTC) (Resetting indents) Exactly what would that solve? All you'd be doing by that is saying "its Wood Release, we're just not calling it that", which is pretty dumb. Its drawn like wood, it has the properties of a Wood Release technique (Obito called it a tree, it grows flowers, which Wood techniques can do, and it came out of the ground). @Salamancc: You can call it part of the Ten-Tails until you turn purple and fall over unconscious from lack of air to your brain, but Obito called it a tree. What you are speaking is what is called a "crack-pot theory", because you're saying "its not a tree, its part of the Ten-Tails", despite the fact that; * A) Obito called it a tree. Anything other than that is speculation, because that's all he said about it. * B) Obito didn't transform into part of the Ten-Tails, he summoned it from underground like all Wood Release techniques are. * C) It is drawn as a tree root (see gallery above). I honestly don't see how this is so hard to figure out. It either is Wood Release, or it isn't, and it has all the traits of a tree, which is what Obito called it in the first place — ergo, Wood Release. I'm going to ask Omni, Ultimate, and Cerez to weigh in, because at this point, we need some users that aren't so prone to speculation. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 01:14, August 21, 2013 (UTC) Alright, my take on this is the following: *Pro Ten Tails Technique **It resembles the Ten Tails (spikes, flowers, slime) **It fires Bijūdama *Pro Wood Release Technique **Obito calls it a tree (pending, waiting for the raw) **It resembles Madara's flower technique *Contra Ten Tails Technique **Obito summons it from the ground, which is uncommon for tailed beast jutsu *Contra Wood Release Technique **Obito didn't use any Wood Release besides that one time, why would he now? **He has no connection to the technique, he can't channel the Bijūdama I strongly believe that this is a Ten-Tails Technique, but would like to wait on the upcoming chapter to further clarify this. Until then, we shouldn't add either. Seelentau 愛議 01:25, August 21, 2013 (UTC) Seelentau 愛 Summarized a lot of the discussion, there's no need continue perpetuate the pointless discussion. Now Ten Tailed Fox, can you calm your ego for a moment? I was suggesting remove the "Wood Release:" because not all the elemental techniques has the name of its element at the beginning of it. Example:Top Transformed Buddha. The "Wood Release:" in the name is a huge assumption, and for that reason we should remove it from name until we can get the real/full name of the technique (as it was the case of the Wood dragon's article. The full name of the technique wasn't know until the flashback of Hashirama and Madara's battle).Also we must add the Tailed Beast Skill category simply due the Tailed Beast Ball's usage. Adept-eX (talk) 01:46, August 21, 2013 (UTC) :Please remember that I highly doubt that Hashirama could be the only thing to ever have wood release naturally this is the TenTails we are talking about It probably does have wood release and i believe that is the TenTail's technique and Seelantau and darksusanoo have pretty much said what i would like to say and TenTailed fox you might aswell stop the arguing now as we've give our reason and side of the discussion --Root根 09:52, August 21, 2013 (UTC) ::The only thing we know for sure, is that he used Tailed Beast Ball with it, so it can be listed as a Tailed Beast Skill. In regards to Wood Release, personally I think it is. As the Ten-Tails jinchuriki, he could fire off Tailed Beast Balls from his own body if he preferred, why did he make a giant tree. Also, it's an effing tree. ::That being said, I am prefectly content with just listing it as a Tailed Beast Skill, with a trivia note that it could be a Wood Release.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 11:48, August 21, 2013 (UTC) (Resetting indent) Food for thought; Mangastream just released a statement saying that the chapter we all read may have had horrible translations. Apparently, a Chinese company which, like Viz, gets the chapters way in advance of its actual release, leaked some of the Jump chapters, Naruto being one of them. Several scanlators translated it from Chinese to Japanese to English, and according to Mangastream, these translations are proportably unreliable. I propose then we wait until the RAWs and/or a better translation is available before making a final decision. While it is unlikely, it could clear up this little situation if we have a more accurate translation, which Seel can then give us and fix this little mess, no? Also, Root, I'll have you mind your tongue. I can debate an issue however long I wish, especially when you are forgetting that Darksusanoo agrees its wood release, and most, if not all agree its a tree, which is always a product of wood release. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 12:05, August 21, 2013 (UTC) :Well we know its a tree I'm saying that the Jyubi can probably use wood release somehow but we cannot be sure though--Root根 12:12, August 21, 2013 (UTC) :: Then it is speculation and doesn't belong on an article. We only report what we do know on a wiki's article, and we do know that it is a tree. Tree's are always produced via Wood Release, flowers can be grown via Wood Release, and techniques, like Tailed Beast Ball, can be channeled through other techniques. That is all we have reported on this page; what we know. I don't care if the Ten-Tails can use Wood Release or not. There is simply not enough evidence to decide that one way or another, and you lot are grasping at straws to try to prove that. That being said, he did use Tailed Beast Ball with it, so we compromise; put Tailed Beast Skill on it, leave it as a Wood Release, and we'll wait for more answers. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 12:17, August 21, 2013 (UTC) ::: I Also i agree with Ten Tailed Fox, because: 1: Obito Uchiha says Tree, 2: Could be yes of Ten-Tails, because he when uses your Tailed Beast Ball your mouth opens and is appearing something very similar to this WR. Therefore it is good to wait more time until the manga/databook speak what is if is Tailed Beast Skill/Wood Release. Elias uzumaki 15:34, August 21, 2013 (UTC) 1. "Obito summons it from the ground, which is uncommon for tailed beast jutsu" No, tailed beast chakra arms can be summoned from ground. 2. "Tree's are always produced via Wood Release" No, we cant know, Jubi created thunderstorms (Raiton), tornadoes (Fuuton), floods (Suiton) and earthquakes (Doton) via Tenpenchi, but Tenpechi isnt a nature transformation. I'm saying if it's a wood, we cant know for now it is WR or not. I think it is a tree-shaped Jubi part. --Salamancc (talk) 21:01, August 21, 2013 (UTC) : ^ It doesn't get any more speculatory than that. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 21:32, August 21, 2013 (UTC) I'm not sure if this would help, but Mangapanda's scanlation was redone in higher quality images and translations. Take a look to see if it helps the discussion a bit. --Questionaredude (talk) 23:27, August 21, 2013 (UTC) You know, there's a really simple explanation for this that would satisfy all parties in this discussion. Madara's wood clones can use susanoo, right? They're not channeling it from Madara, they're using it themselves. So wouldn't the easiest explanation (and one I'm surprised no one here came up with) is that Obito used wood release to copy the ten tails mouth? That would certainly make it both wood release and a tailed beast skill. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 00:19, August 22, 2013 (UTC) : ^ Bazinga. We have a winner. Right on what I was thinking as well. Its not rocket science. Obito was present when the Ten-Tails fired its Beast Ball, so, how is it such a big shock when he uses a Wood technique designed like it? Monkey-see, monkey-do. Its wood release-related, it comes out of the ground, its called a tree. Wood Release. End of story. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 00:47, August 22, 2013 (UTC) Unless the raw changes anything about it being a tree, I think the simplest thing is to call it a Wood Release tailed beast skill. We've seen weird category overlaps before. Deidara's clay is both hiden and kekkei genkai. Hashirama's Buddha is senjutsu and kekkei genkai. Kekkei genkai tailed beast skill is only another combination. Omnibender - Talk - 00:50, August 22, 2013 (UTC)